Special Called Meeting
Date: Tuesday October 06, 2020 (10/06/20)
Documents & Links:
Additional Documents:
Chat:
18:14:25 From Nial Rele : Why address?
18:15:02 From Ian Huizenga : no idea
18:15:04 From Guest Account1 : Give you 3 guesses
18:16:14 From Bryan Goodkowsky : I Second Mr. Rele's question. Enough of our information has been made public as of late.
18:17:26 From Zoe Kaslow : Jeremy, you’re muted
18:18:45 From Guest Account1 : There's a huge stack of evidence to the contrary. Has anyone else seen the latest BY Digger headline? There's NO WAY that was a clerical error... The chief should resign
18:18:53 From Guest Account1 : VT
18:20:22 From Jill Murray-Killon : what was the date of the meeting where the police budget was discussed?
18:20:32 From Jill Murray-Killon : there should be minutes and a recording
18:23:09 From Jon Kidde : The police force has grown. Did the City Council approve an increase in the police budget to hire the new officers?
18:23:25 From Zoe Kaslow : In the chat!
18:23:30 From allison rimmer : I’m raising my hand!
18:23:36 From Mel Hawley : June 28, 2019 was the meeting in the Opera House when there was discussion about cutting two officers from the budget.
18:24:07 From Abigail Blum : Allison and Jon, you can raise your hands through the participants tab at the bottom
18:24:13 From Helena Van Voorst : To raise your hand, click on participants and push the “raise hand” button on the bottom right of that participant list
18:25:54 From Nial Rele : Here is a question ---> I guess I'm curious about the intent of this meeting.. The mayor's prepared remarks seemed simply to be a forceful attack on the former mayor and a defense of actions and decisions that are part of a singular interpretation of history. It doesn't feel like a step forward.. Further, this meeting shows up on the City website as a Special Meeting of City Council. Then, why are the other City Councilors not allowed to participate in the same manner as the mayor?
18:26:10 From KEO VT : Exactly.
18:26:48 From Catherine Brooks : how do I ask a question?
18:27:30 From Bryan Goodkowsky : Where did the idea for the Equity Study come from? How was the RFP able to go out without a council quorum? Have proposals been received? My understanding is that the proposals are due on the 13th and expected to be voted on the same day. How is our new council able to act on such a major decision under those circumstances? Is this study intended to supersede the CRBEC?
18:27:59 From Sarah Stroup : Hi everyone - to raise your hand, click on the "participants" button at the bottom of the screen. You will see a list of people pop up on the right. At the bottom of the screen, you will see "raise hand."
18:29:37 From Jason Farrell : What even is this?
18:29:55 From KEO VT : Ego-defense
18:30:06 From KEO VT : This isn't about moving forward at all
18:30:34 From richardmorin : Why are only two city council members at this meeting?
18:30:56 From richardmorin : What you are saying is you took this into your own hands?
18:31:00 From John Coburn : If this meeting is supposedly about moving the city council forward why not include the city council more in this meeting? Why is everyone one else on the sideline?
18:31:05 From Sue Rakowski : it’s not a city council meeting. At least it hasn’t been properly warned as one although the majority of the council is here (present on zoom), discussing city business.
18:31:18 From richardmorin : No you aren’t.
18:31:30 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : Lynn, can you at least acknowledge why people are upset at the way you handled things? how do you think this defensiveness helps move the city forward?
18:31:49 From KEO VT : Then prove it and fire the corrupt "chief" That's one way to move forward
18:32:15 From Didier Murat : I don’t think you can move forward without resolving those important issues
18:32:59 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : the Zoom says its a "Council Meeting"
18:33:40 From John Coburn : I think this matter needs the attention of a fully elected city council and I look forward to bringing it up after the special election
18:34:44 From Kathy Rossier : what lead up to the night…..then it wasn’t a meeting about the police ?
18:36:04 From KEO VT : An accurate statement.
18:36:58 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : great question Sue
18:37:56 From Sue Rakowski : I cannot unmute
18:38:10 From Jeremy Holm : Jeff Frittz is a good man who has done a lot of good for this city. Tearing him down about texts he sent when he was upset. You and David and Daniel blew it up into what we now have.
18:38:23 From KEO VT : 100%
18:38:31 From KEO VT : So true
18:39:02 From Mike Winslow : AMEN
18:40:00 From Ray : I'm looking forward to the future with our new council!
18:40:10 From Amanda : Was the complaint ever actually discussed? If so, what was the actual complaint and what has been done to investigate and resolve it? From what I saw, the bruhaha with the former mayor overrode that topic.
18:40:11 From Nial Rele : The city voted in 3 new city councilors on a platform of transparency in local government. The format of this meeting feels like its limiting their (as well as the other 2 council members') ability to contribute to this conversation.
18:41:03 From Jill Murray-Killon : I believe employee actions that come out of Exec session need to be on the record after exec session is adjorned
18:41:38 From Nial Rele : <--- We have current city councilors being forced to contribute their thoughts in the Chat?
18:41:57 From Cheryl : If Daniel called the last meeting, on his own, is that legal?
18:42:08 From Sue Rakowski : yes, the council would issue a statement after exiting executive session
18:42:22 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : Great comment Carrie!
18:43:09 From dchawley1950 : Question - have any of the "new councilors" actually been sworn in and now have taken office? There are formalities.
18:43:35 From Ian Huizenga : yes
18:43:36 From KEO VT : Except we wanted the truth
18:46:23 From Sue Rakowski : Correct. the community forums are not addressing city business. Tonight’s meeting is.
18:46:48 From richardmorin : But why aren’t all the city councilors there?
18:46:58 From Mark Koenig : I'm not sure why Lynn was not able to locate the minutes for the three special budget meetings held on 6/18/19, 6/25/19, and 6/28/19. They are all available on the City's website. In all three sets fo minutes, Lynn is reported discussing her opposition to reducing the police force by 2 officers. I'm happy to forward copies if need be.
18:47:28 From John Coburn : Great question Mark!
18:48:14 From Sue Rakowski : thank you, Dickie
18:48:53 From rebecca rey : thank you Dickie
18:49:03 From Stacy Raphael : what if it is the will of the council?
18:49:18 From Jill Murray-Killon : I have some statements about open meeting law
18:49:26 From Cheryl & Peter : Speaking truth, Dickie!
18:49:41 From KEO VT : I echo that- Thank you Dickie
18:50:10 From sandyreck : Thank you Dickie!
18:50:55 From Sue Rakowski : Alderwoman or Councilor, please.
18:51:01 From Jesse’s iPhone : if that wasn’t a personnel issue, what is?
18:51:23 From Nial Rele : To clarify - is the Mayor saying that there wasn't an offer on a unity plan after 7/16?
18:51:45 From Nial Rele : of*
18:52:01 From Jason Farrell : his is giving Cracker Barrell's a bad name...
18:52:35 From Sarah Stroup : Thank you Alderman Murray-Killon! To be clear - neither Jon K or I are running the meetings on 10/8 and 10/15, we are fortunate to have professional outside facilitators.
18:53:22 From Nial Rele : It's a yes or no question.. was there a discussion of a unity plan?
18:53:26 From Carrie Macfarlane : Seemed like Lowell was willing to respond, Daniel. would you call on him?
18:53:37 From Dave Small : Mayor Fritz nominated Alderperson Donnelly and she was unanimously voted yay by the council
18:53:56 From Dave Small : She was not ‘hand picked’
18:54:00 From Jason Farrell : She was never elected to be Deputy Mayor. It's an appointed position by the Council.
18:54:56 From rebecca rey : Thank you Mark.
18:55:22 From John Coburn : Thank you Mark!
18:55:29 From KEO VT : Go Mark!! THANK YOU
18:56:27 From sandyreck : Thank you Mark!
18:56:41 From Shannon Haggett : Just for clarification - the "annual" meeting is always held in March. The June meeting was not the annual meeting, it was a city council meeting that was held in the Opera House as large crowds were expected because of the budget discussions surrounding the police force.
18:56:49 From KEO VT : Mark for mayor
18:57:12 From Darren Donovan : please correct me if I'm wrong......my elected officials have to be chosen to speak? Have they been sworn in? If so this is outrageous.
18:57:14 From Guest : that sounds like a coup
18:57:20 From John Coburn : Thank you for that clarification Shannon!
18:57:36 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : yeah the 7/28 meeting was definitely going to be a train wreck...one train wreck after another with this administration
18:57:36 From Jill Murray-Killon : thank you, Shannon. I was having trouble finding any June meetings listed as Annual Meeting!
18:58:04 From dchawley1950 : How grandious of Mark Koenig.... he thought he had the pulse of the community?
18:58:14 From Jon Kidde : I’ve had my hand up for a while but I’m going to try text.
Mayor Donnelly: I do appreciate the effort to lean in to this. However I do not think this is the best format to clear the air or repair harm. If we are truly trying to clear the air and repair harm, ALL the people closely involved need to have reasonable opportunities to build a common understanding of the events that led to the harm; time and space is needed to explore the impact and how people were affected. Then, those most affected can identify what those people need to move forward and can make a plan to address those needs.
18:58:21 From Jon Kidde : Question 1: Does the new council have plans to set agreements around how they will be with one another? Proactively setting norms and agreements is needed for any group to accomplish meaningful work. I am extremely concerned about the productivity of the new council if this is not done. I think asking the community for input here might serve the city well.
18:58:28 From Jon Kidde : Question 2: Mayor Donnelly said, the City Council is responsible for the budget. The question I asked was not answered. Did the City Council approve the increase in the police budget that led to the hiring of the new officers? I have a concern that new officers were hired and then the additional expense had to be factored into the city budget?
18:58:57 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : that's a straw man Lynn, no one is defending Jeff's behavior. we're trying to point out that your (and Daniel's) behavior made it worse
18:59:11 From KEO VT : Great, and you're obviously doing a great job here.
18:59:11 From Ray : wow
18:59:14 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : and no one wants you to be hit by a car! JFC
18:59:20 From Jeremy Holm : NO ONE WANTS ANYONE HURT!!!!!
18:59:21 From Cheryl Brownell : Is this meeting supposed to inspire confidence?
18:59:33 From andrewkirkaldy : The council approves the budget put forth by the city manager after recommendations by department heads. It has the power to change it.
18:59:45 From Jason Farrell : "I like the position I have for the people that support me".. is that what was said?
19:00:16 From Cheryl & Peter : Holy crap!
19:01:27 From John Coburn : The slate got over 1500 votes, would you agree that is more than 10 people?
19:02:05 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : "I'm sorry you feel that way" is such a non apology
19:02:11 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : it's insulting
19:02:22 From Guest : the budget that wasn’t even for this year?? this is pointless
19:02:26 From KEO VT : NO- You thought how can I try to solidify the lies we've already told.
Step down, Lynn
19:03:23 From allison rimmer : Please note that Lynn made the motion for the tax increase, should anyone want to point fingers at David for voting for that increase.
19:03:41 From Cheryl & Peter : I would love to make a motion for Lynn to step down from office!
19:03:41 From Mark Koenig : Actually, David Austin voted against the budget.
19:04:47 From Jason Farrell : Colin Robinson
19:04:49 From allison rimmer : Good for David Austin! I meant David Small. David Small was pointed out as voting for a tax increase implying that was a bad tax increase
19:05:02 From Guest Account1 : Agreed, I think Vergennes would be better able to move foreword if Lynn stepped down
19:06:09 From KEO VT : and the chief, and the city manager, and...
19:06:19 From sandyreck : Can David Small comment on his vote noted here in the comments regarding the tax increase? Please?
19:07:10 From laurie : This is awful and off to to a nasty, negative start, sad!
19:07:30 From KEO VT : Super helpful, thank laurie
19:08:02 From Stacy Raphael : council decides on deputy mayor; new council should have the oversight and authority to appoint an interim mayor and deputy mayor as top agenda item at first meeting
19:08:02 From Darren Donovan : This is nothing more than a dyfunctional condominium board.
19:08:11 From Abigail Blum : It seems like some of our current council members might need that refresher too
19:08:13 From Didier Murat : Why is Alderman David Austin there in the meeting room? Anyone know why him and not the rest of the council?
19:08:23 From Bryan Goodkowsky : Committee members need to be invited to this training as well.
19:08:50 From Stacy Raphael : hopefully that training is for new AND returning council members!
19:09:03 From Darren Donovan : the league of towns and cities is an awful institution. a dinosaur.
19:09:05 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : at least he's wearing a mask which is an improvement over last time
19:09:25 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : a plus for mask wearing and distancing tonight ��
19:09:48 From Darren Donovan : nobody is inspired to be close!
19:10:21 From Cheryl Brownell : Is the address requirement to speak no longer a thing in this meeting?
19:10:57 From Guest : yeah when you disagree with something you just don’t abide by the rule
19:11:53 From KEO VT : I think it was a flimsy scare tactic to try and discourage people from sharing
19:12:07 From KEO VT : so it makes sense they'd forget about it
19:13:15 From Bryan Goodkowsky : Then I would like Mr. Hofman to answer my questions. He issued the RFP. He is monitoring the Zoom as well as the chat.
19:13:17 From KEO VT : LOL!
19:13:55 From rebecca rey : thank you Matt
19:14:39 From Alicia Grangent : I had a meeting with Daniel and David about the RFP being changed to represent RACE instead of what the intended purpose of it was to be - police oversight. Totally misleading - David A. advised at the time it would be changed. Sadly, it has not changed. My requested meeting with the Mayor and Town Manager has not occurred.
19:18:46 From Alicia Grangent : So many issues with that proposal... It needs to be pulled and discussed with the council. THis is taxpayer money .
19:19:35 From Kathy Rossier : and lopwell
19:19:40 From Kathy Rossier : Lowell
19:19:55 From Sue Rakowski : yes don’t forget Lowell
19:20:00 From Jill Murray-Killon : I'm still muted
19:20:28 From Zoe Kaslow : Can we unmute Jill?
19:20:38 From Jon Kidde : I am pretty confident that there is no budget to pay for any proposals the city receives. Technically, I think the RFP is a Request For Information.
19:22:52 From Guest : you don’t have time for your alderwoman duties?
19:23:12 From KEO VT : Cute, but she obviously does.
19:23:25 From KEO VT : For real
19:23:29 From Stacy Raphael : “Guest”
19:23:29 From Jason Farrell : "Guest" is lame. Put a name on it.
19:23:34 From John Coburn : Wow super brave GUEST
19:24:30 From Jason Farrell : Who is "we", Lynn?
19:24:39 From KEO VT : Exactly
19:24:56 From KEO VT : "we" who?
19:25:21 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : that rings hollow given David Austin's recent appearance on conservative talk radio throwing my organization under the bus
19:25:41 From Jill Murray-Killon : I agree, thank you Mayor Donnelly for this meeting
19:26:25 From Jill Murray-Killon : please unmute me again?? I'm muted
19:27:12 From KEO VT : Virtually everything those 3 have said rings hollow, frankly. You're not alone on that one Elise
19:27:40 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : that's a good norm
19:29:28 From Jason Farrell : Thank you, Kathy!
19:29:29 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : why can't you approach Daniel like a reasonable human being and ask him politely to remove the divisive posts?
19:29:46 From Catherine Brooks : good job Kathy R
19:29:56 From Mike Winslow : Thank you Kathy
19:29:56 From Sue Rakowski : Thank you, Kathy!
19:29:57 From Carrie Macfarlane : It is possible to delete and edit previous posts, Daniel. Would you please do that?
19:30:35 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : stop appearing on conservative talk radio?
19:30:36 From rebecca rey : That wasn't transparency, it was opinion. It has no place on the city website
19:30:38 From KEO VT : FYI, the chief wasn't exonerated,Donovan looked at a huge stack of evidence that he's been stealing from the city and let the chief off the hook.
19:30:40 From allison rimmer : Dan was ASKED by the mayor to edit the posts and he refused.
19:30:55 From Stacy Raphael : thanks, Kathy!
19:31:12 From Cheryl Brownell : I agree with having all city websites/social media outlets meet a level of professionalism above what was posted originally.
19:32:53 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : matt white was on the same episode spouting conspiracy theories and explaining how LIHTC works completely wrong....
19:34:16 From KEO VT : For real?
19:34:33 From KEO VT : Exactly,. what was the point of that?
19:34:48 From kim : that's a terrible way to end
19:34:49 From Guest : he’s a member of the community and anyone can speak
19:34:53 From Jill Murray-Killon : please unmute me??
19:34:54 From Darren Donovan : it's all at Area 51
19:35:03 From Stacy Raphael : are YOU KIDDING ME?
19:35:04 From Bryan Goodkowsky : Now we know who is behind the "Truth Hive" getting involved in our city.
19:35:08 From Sue Walsh : What was that. This is important
19:35:36 From allison rimmer : What what is? this is a heck of a thing to throw out at the end of the meeting
19:35:48 From KEO VT : Lol, really.
19:35:50 From Stacy Raphael : He said Lynn and David will be dropping a heavy load at the first meeting. what the ?!
19:35:58 From Darren Donovan : please......keep it going!
19:35:59 From KEO VT : That was messed up, but ok, cool
19:36:16 From Darren Donovan : this was the best part.
19:36:19 From KEO VT : Yes, this meeting needs to continue
19:36:20 From Danelle Birong : Please continue this meeting. We can not end like this, no matter the time.
19:36:45 From Stacy Raphael : Lynn and David - do you know Matt White?
19:36:47 From Cheryl Brownell : Please do not end the meeting until this is addressed.
19:36:52 From kim : that's a terrible way to end and I feel more divided than ever
19:36:53 From Didier Murat : please continue the meeting
19:36:56 From laurie : call him
19:37:00 From Darren Donovan : I want Matt White to have the floor for as long as he wants.
19:37:00 From Stacy Raphael : DO NOT END MEETING
19:37:04 From Mark Koenig : Does David Austin know what Matt White was talking about. They have been on podcasts together
19:37:04 From Amanda : ian please ask Matt
19:37:29 From Darren Donovan : No! Now!!
19:37:34 From KEO VT : If you end this now, it casts you in a terrible light, guys
19:37:42 From KEO VT : and it's already bad enough, don't you think?
19:37:43 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : based on the podcast it sounds like David A has an agenda
19:37:57 From Darren Donovan : you have to continue!
19:38:10 From allison rimmer : Why does a citizen toss out: Oh, boy! Wait til you all hear what *I* know!! What is this?
19:38:11 From Kathy Rossier : do not end this
19:38:16 From rebecca rey : Thank you Dickie
19:38:19 From KEO VT : PLEASE
19:38:27 From Darren Donovan : let the council members override the decision to close
19:38:29 From sandyreck : Yes, please clarify Mat White!
19:38:31 From Keith’s iPhone : Thanks Dickie
19:38:47 From Darren Donovan : override the decision
19:38:49 From sandyreck : Absolutely Dickie!!
19:38:57 From Darren Donovan : unmute him
19:39:02 From Stacy Raphael : what about David Austin?
19:39:14 From John Stroup : information about what?
19:39:20 From Darren Donovan : then he shouldn't have brought it up.
19:39:24 From Stacy Raphael : bs
19:39:31 From Jason Farrell : That's a troll
19:39:56 From Darren Donovan : call the city attorney on zoom right now.
19:39:58 From allison rimmer : David A and Matt White podcast together
19:40:04 From Kathy Rossier : David Austin….what do you know?
19:40:05 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : no, it's a real person who is also seriously misguided
19:40:09 From Carrie Macfarlane : what podcast
19:40:12 From KEO VT : this is certainly odd
19:40:27 From Keith’s iPhone : anyone got a name for the podcast?
19:40:37 From Bryan Goodkowsky : Mr. White. Please confirm that you are behind the FOIA requests through The "Truth Hive" https://trive.news/
19:40:39 From Kathy Rossier : they have taken office
19:40:47 From Darren Donovan : they have taken office!!
19:40:56 From Jill Murray-Killon : I am muted again.
19:40:56 From Carrie Macfarlane : oh my, is he Qanon?
19:41:02 From Stacy Raphael : then why speak at all?
19:41:12 From KEO VT : really
19:41:15 From Darren Donovan : please unmute Jill!! Now
19:41:28 From Stacy Raphael : UNMUTE JILL
19:41:49 From Sue Walsh : un mute jill
19:41:51 From Darren Donovan : so the former members are liable. not the new ones? correct?
19:41:58 From richardmorin : Do yourself a favor and google ghost of Matt Lyon/Matt White. Puts comments in context.
19:42:03 From Stacy Raphael : David Austin do you know Matt White?
19:42:08 From Kathy Rossier : DAvid, what knowledge do you have??
19:42:11 From Darren Donovan : bullshit!
19:42:11 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : Declare your independence with earnest hancock
19:42:17 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : 9/14 episode
19:42:34 From Darren Donovan : he's now made it public.
19:42:39 From Jason Farrell : Troll
19:42:48 From Darren Donovan : she's a paralegal
19:42:52 From Stacy Raphael : dude
19:43:01 From John Stroup : There are a lot of people in this Zoom room who have also made FOIA requests (including me) and we have made that material publicly available. That information was shared with Andy Kirkaldy who has reported thoroughly and objectively on our city's situation.
19:43:01 From allison rimmer : I guess I look forward to reading an account of Matt’s investigation in the Addy Indy. Responsible reporting
19:43:02 From Stacy Raphael : WOW
19:43:05 From Kathy Rossier : Matt White…do you pay taxes in Vergennes? Are you a full time resident of Vergennes?
19:43:05 From Darren Donovan : no!!!
19:43:28 From Kathy Rossier : Thank you, Lynn and council
19:43:33 From Darren Donovan : override!
19:43:40 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : sorry I can't find the podcast link right now
18:14:25 From Nial Rele : Why address?
18:15:02 From Ian Huizenga : no idea
18:15:04 From Guest Account1 : Give you 3 guesses
18:16:14 From Bryan Goodkowsky : I Second Mr. Rele's question. Enough of our information has been made public as of late.
18:17:26 From Zoe Kaslow : Jeremy, you’re muted
18:18:45 From Guest Account1 : There's a huge stack of evidence to the contrary. Has anyone else seen the latest BY Digger headline? There's NO WAY that was a clerical error... The chief should resign
18:18:53 From Guest Account1 : VT
18:20:22 From Jill Murray-Killon : what was the date of the meeting where the police budget was discussed?
18:20:32 From Jill Murray-Killon : there should be minutes and a recording
18:23:09 From Jon Kidde : The police force has grown. Did the City Council approve an increase in the police budget to hire the new officers?
18:23:25 From Zoe Kaslow : In the chat!
18:23:30 From allison rimmer : I’m raising my hand!
18:23:36 From Mel Hawley : June 28, 2019 was the meeting in the Opera House when there was discussion about cutting two officers from the budget.
18:24:07 From Abigail Blum : Allison and Jon, you can raise your hands through the participants tab at the bottom
18:24:13 From Helena Van Voorst : To raise your hand, click on participants and push the “raise hand” button on the bottom right of that participant list
18:25:54 From Nial Rele : Here is a question ---> I guess I'm curious about the intent of this meeting.. The mayor's prepared remarks seemed simply to be a forceful attack on the former mayor and a defense of actions and decisions that are part of a singular interpretation of history. It doesn't feel like a step forward.. Further, this meeting shows up on the City website as a Special Meeting of City Council. Then, why are the other City Councilors not allowed to participate in the same manner as the mayor?
18:26:10 From KEO VT : Exactly.
18:26:48 From Catherine Brooks : how do I ask a question?
18:27:30 From Bryan Goodkowsky : Where did the idea for the Equity Study come from? How was the RFP able to go out without a council quorum? Have proposals been received? My understanding is that the proposals are due on the 13th and expected to be voted on the same day. How is our new council able to act on such a major decision under those circumstances? Is this study intended to supersede the CRBEC?
18:27:59 From Sarah Stroup : Hi everyone - to raise your hand, click on the "participants" button at the bottom of the screen. You will see a list of people pop up on the right. At the bottom of the screen, you will see "raise hand."
18:29:37 From Jason Farrell : What even is this?
18:29:55 From KEO VT : Ego-defense
18:30:06 From KEO VT : This isn't about moving forward at all
18:30:34 From richardmorin : Why are only two city council members at this meeting?
18:30:56 From richardmorin : What you are saying is you took this into your own hands?
18:31:00 From John Coburn : If this meeting is supposedly about moving the city council forward why not include the city council more in this meeting? Why is everyone one else on the sideline?
18:31:05 From Sue Rakowski : it’s not a city council meeting. At least it hasn’t been properly warned as one although the majority of the council is here (present on zoom), discussing city business.
18:31:18 From richardmorin : No you aren’t.
18:31:30 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : Lynn, can you at least acknowledge why people are upset at the way you handled things? how do you think this defensiveness helps move the city forward?
18:31:49 From KEO VT : Then prove it and fire the corrupt "chief" That's one way to move forward
18:32:15 From Didier Murat : I don’t think you can move forward without resolving those important issues
18:32:59 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : the Zoom says its a "Council Meeting"
18:33:40 From John Coburn : I think this matter needs the attention of a fully elected city council and I look forward to bringing it up after the special election
18:34:44 From Kathy Rossier : what lead up to the night…..then it wasn’t a meeting about the police ?
18:36:04 From KEO VT : An accurate statement.
18:36:58 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : great question Sue
18:37:56 From Sue Rakowski : I cannot unmute
18:38:10 From Jeremy Holm : Jeff Frittz is a good man who has done a lot of good for this city. Tearing him down about texts he sent when he was upset. You and David and Daniel blew it up into what we now have.
18:38:23 From KEO VT : 100%
18:38:31 From KEO VT : So true
18:39:02 From Mike Winslow : AMEN
18:40:00 From Ray : I'm looking forward to the future with our new council!
18:40:10 From Amanda : Was the complaint ever actually discussed? If so, what was the actual complaint and what has been done to investigate and resolve it? From what I saw, the bruhaha with the former mayor overrode that topic.
18:40:11 From Nial Rele : The city voted in 3 new city councilors on a platform of transparency in local government. The format of this meeting feels like its limiting their (as well as the other 2 council members') ability to contribute to this conversation.
18:41:03 From Jill Murray-Killon : I believe employee actions that come out of Exec session need to be on the record after exec session is adjorned
18:41:38 From Nial Rele : <--- We have current city councilors being forced to contribute their thoughts in the Chat?
18:41:57 From Cheryl : If Daniel called the last meeting, on his own, is that legal?
18:42:08 From Sue Rakowski : yes, the council would issue a statement after exiting executive session
18:42:22 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : Great comment Carrie!
18:43:09 From dchawley1950 : Question - have any of the "new councilors" actually been sworn in and now have taken office? There are formalities.
18:43:35 From Ian Huizenga : yes
18:43:36 From KEO VT : Except we wanted the truth
18:46:23 From Sue Rakowski : Correct. the community forums are not addressing city business. Tonight’s meeting is.
18:46:48 From richardmorin : But why aren’t all the city councilors there?
18:46:58 From Mark Koenig : I'm not sure why Lynn was not able to locate the minutes for the three special budget meetings held on 6/18/19, 6/25/19, and 6/28/19. They are all available on the City's website. In all three sets fo minutes, Lynn is reported discussing her opposition to reducing the police force by 2 officers. I'm happy to forward copies if need be.
18:47:28 From John Coburn : Great question Mark!
18:48:14 From Sue Rakowski : thank you, Dickie
18:48:53 From rebecca rey : thank you Dickie
18:49:03 From Stacy Raphael : what if it is the will of the council?
18:49:18 From Jill Murray-Killon : I have some statements about open meeting law
18:49:26 From Cheryl & Peter : Speaking truth, Dickie!
18:49:41 From KEO VT : I echo that- Thank you Dickie
18:50:10 From sandyreck : Thank you Dickie!
18:50:55 From Sue Rakowski : Alderwoman or Councilor, please.
18:51:01 From Jesse’s iPhone : if that wasn’t a personnel issue, what is?
18:51:23 From Nial Rele : To clarify - is the Mayor saying that there wasn't an offer on a unity plan after 7/16?
18:51:45 From Nial Rele : of*
18:52:01 From Jason Farrell : his is giving Cracker Barrell's a bad name...
18:52:35 From Sarah Stroup : Thank you Alderman Murray-Killon! To be clear - neither Jon K or I are running the meetings on 10/8 and 10/15, we are fortunate to have professional outside facilitators.
18:53:22 From Nial Rele : It's a yes or no question.. was there a discussion of a unity plan?
18:53:26 From Carrie Macfarlane : Seemed like Lowell was willing to respond, Daniel. would you call on him?
18:53:37 From Dave Small : Mayor Fritz nominated Alderperson Donnelly and she was unanimously voted yay by the council
18:53:56 From Dave Small : She was not ‘hand picked’
18:54:00 From Jason Farrell : She was never elected to be Deputy Mayor. It's an appointed position by the Council.
18:54:56 From rebecca rey : Thank you Mark.
18:55:22 From John Coburn : Thank you Mark!
18:55:29 From KEO VT : Go Mark!! THANK YOU
18:56:27 From sandyreck : Thank you Mark!
18:56:41 From Shannon Haggett : Just for clarification - the "annual" meeting is always held in March. The June meeting was not the annual meeting, it was a city council meeting that was held in the Opera House as large crowds were expected because of the budget discussions surrounding the police force.
18:56:49 From KEO VT : Mark for mayor
18:57:12 From Darren Donovan : please correct me if I'm wrong......my elected officials have to be chosen to speak? Have they been sworn in? If so this is outrageous.
18:57:14 From Guest : that sounds like a coup
18:57:20 From John Coburn : Thank you for that clarification Shannon!
18:57:36 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : yeah the 7/28 meeting was definitely going to be a train wreck...one train wreck after another with this administration
18:57:36 From Jill Murray-Killon : thank you, Shannon. I was having trouble finding any June meetings listed as Annual Meeting!
18:58:04 From dchawley1950 : How grandious of Mark Koenig.... he thought he had the pulse of the community?
18:58:14 From Jon Kidde : I’ve had my hand up for a while but I’m going to try text.
Mayor Donnelly: I do appreciate the effort to lean in to this. However I do not think this is the best format to clear the air or repair harm. If we are truly trying to clear the air and repair harm, ALL the people closely involved need to have reasonable opportunities to build a common understanding of the events that led to the harm; time and space is needed to explore the impact and how people were affected. Then, those most affected can identify what those people need to move forward and can make a plan to address those needs.
18:58:21 From Jon Kidde : Question 1: Does the new council have plans to set agreements around how they will be with one another? Proactively setting norms and agreements is needed for any group to accomplish meaningful work. I am extremely concerned about the productivity of the new council if this is not done. I think asking the community for input here might serve the city well.
18:58:28 From Jon Kidde : Question 2: Mayor Donnelly said, the City Council is responsible for the budget. The question I asked was not answered. Did the City Council approve the increase in the police budget that led to the hiring of the new officers? I have a concern that new officers were hired and then the additional expense had to be factored into the city budget?
18:58:57 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : that's a straw man Lynn, no one is defending Jeff's behavior. we're trying to point out that your (and Daniel's) behavior made it worse
18:59:11 From KEO VT : Great, and you're obviously doing a great job here.
18:59:11 From Ray : wow
18:59:14 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : and no one wants you to be hit by a car! JFC
18:59:20 From Jeremy Holm : NO ONE WANTS ANYONE HURT!!!!!
18:59:21 From Cheryl Brownell : Is this meeting supposed to inspire confidence?
18:59:33 From andrewkirkaldy : The council approves the budget put forth by the city manager after recommendations by department heads. It has the power to change it.
18:59:45 From Jason Farrell : "I like the position I have for the people that support me".. is that what was said?
19:00:16 From Cheryl & Peter : Holy crap!
19:01:27 From John Coburn : The slate got over 1500 votes, would you agree that is more than 10 people?
19:02:05 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : "I'm sorry you feel that way" is such a non apology
19:02:11 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : it's insulting
19:02:22 From Guest : the budget that wasn’t even for this year?? this is pointless
19:02:26 From KEO VT : NO- You thought how can I try to solidify the lies we've already told.
Step down, Lynn
19:03:23 From allison rimmer : Please note that Lynn made the motion for the tax increase, should anyone want to point fingers at David for voting for that increase.
19:03:41 From Cheryl & Peter : I would love to make a motion for Lynn to step down from office!
19:03:41 From Mark Koenig : Actually, David Austin voted against the budget.
19:04:47 From Jason Farrell : Colin Robinson
19:04:49 From allison rimmer : Good for David Austin! I meant David Small. David Small was pointed out as voting for a tax increase implying that was a bad tax increase
19:05:02 From Guest Account1 : Agreed, I think Vergennes would be better able to move foreword if Lynn stepped down
19:06:09 From KEO VT : and the chief, and the city manager, and...
19:06:19 From sandyreck : Can David Small comment on his vote noted here in the comments regarding the tax increase? Please?
19:07:10 From laurie : This is awful and off to to a nasty, negative start, sad!
19:07:30 From KEO VT : Super helpful, thank laurie
19:08:02 From Stacy Raphael : council decides on deputy mayor; new council should have the oversight and authority to appoint an interim mayor and deputy mayor as top agenda item at first meeting
19:08:02 From Darren Donovan : This is nothing more than a dyfunctional condominium board.
19:08:11 From Abigail Blum : It seems like some of our current council members might need that refresher too
19:08:13 From Didier Murat : Why is Alderman David Austin there in the meeting room? Anyone know why him and not the rest of the council?
19:08:23 From Bryan Goodkowsky : Committee members need to be invited to this training as well.
19:08:50 From Stacy Raphael : hopefully that training is for new AND returning council members!
19:09:03 From Darren Donovan : the league of towns and cities is an awful institution. a dinosaur.
19:09:05 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : at least he's wearing a mask which is an improvement over last time
19:09:25 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : a plus for mask wearing and distancing tonight ��
19:09:48 From Darren Donovan : nobody is inspired to be close!
19:10:21 From Cheryl Brownell : Is the address requirement to speak no longer a thing in this meeting?
19:10:57 From Guest : yeah when you disagree with something you just don’t abide by the rule
19:11:53 From KEO VT : I think it was a flimsy scare tactic to try and discourage people from sharing
19:12:07 From KEO VT : so it makes sense they'd forget about it
19:13:15 From Bryan Goodkowsky : Then I would like Mr. Hofman to answer my questions. He issued the RFP. He is monitoring the Zoom as well as the chat.
19:13:17 From KEO VT : LOL!
19:13:55 From rebecca rey : thank you Matt
19:14:39 From Alicia Grangent : I had a meeting with Daniel and David about the RFP being changed to represent RACE instead of what the intended purpose of it was to be - police oversight. Totally misleading - David A. advised at the time it would be changed. Sadly, it has not changed. My requested meeting with the Mayor and Town Manager has not occurred.
19:18:46 From Alicia Grangent : So many issues with that proposal... It needs to be pulled and discussed with the council. THis is taxpayer money .
19:19:35 From Kathy Rossier : and lopwell
19:19:40 From Kathy Rossier : Lowell
19:19:55 From Sue Rakowski : yes don’t forget Lowell
19:20:00 From Jill Murray-Killon : I'm still muted
19:20:28 From Zoe Kaslow : Can we unmute Jill?
19:20:38 From Jon Kidde : I am pretty confident that there is no budget to pay for any proposals the city receives. Technically, I think the RFP is a Request For Information.
19:22:52 From Guest : you don’t have time for your alderwoman duties?
19:23:12 From KEO VT : Cute, but she obviously does.
19:23:25 From KEO VT : For real
19:23:29 From Stacy Raphael : “Guest”
19:23:29 From Jason Farrell : "Guest" is lame. Put a name on it.
19:23:34 From John Coburn : Wow super brave GUEST
19:24:30 From Jason Farrell : Who is "we", Lynn?
19:24:39 From KEO VT : Exactly
19:24:56 From KEO VT : "we" who?
19:25:21 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : that rings hollow given David Austin's recent appearance on conservative talk radio throwing my organization under the bus
19:25:41 From Jill Murray-Killon : I agree, thank you Mayor Donnelly for this meeting
19:26:25 From Jill Murray-Killon : please unmute me again?? I'm muted
19:27:12 From KEO VT : Virtually everything those 3 have said rings hollow, frankly. You're not alone on that one Elise
19:27:40 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : that's a good norm
19:29:28 From Jason Farrell : Thank you, Kathy!
19:29:29 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : why can't you approach Daniel like a reasonable human being and ask him politely to remove the divisive posts?
19:29:46 From Catherine Brooks : good job Kathy R
19:29:56 From Mike Winslow : Thank you Kathy
19:29:56 From Sue Rakowski : Thank you, Kathy!
19:29:57 From Carrie Macfarlane : It is possible to delete and edit previous posts, Daniel. Would you please do that?
19:30:35 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : stop appearing on conservative talk radio?
19:30:36 From rebecca rey : That wasn't transparency, it was opinion. It has no place on the city website
19:30:38 From KEO VT : FYI, the chief wasn't exonerated,Donovan looked at a huge stack of evidence that he's been stealing from the city and let the chief off the hook.
19:30:40 From allison rimmer : Dan was ASKED by the mayor to edit the posts and he refused.
19:30:55 From Stacy Raphael : thanks, Kathy!
19:31:12 From Cheryl Brownell : I agree with having all city websites/social media outlets meet a level of professionalism above what was posted originally.
19:32:53 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : matt white was on the same episode spouting conspiracy theories and explaining how LIHTC works completely wrong....
19:34:16 From KEO VT : For real?
19:34:33 From KEO VT : Exactly,. what was the point of that?
19:34:48 From kim : that's a terrible way to end
19:34:49 From Guest : he’s a member of the community and anyone can speak
19:34:53 From Jill Murray-Killon : please unmute me??
19:34:54 From Darren Donovan : it's all at Area 51
19:35:03 From Stacy Raphael : are YOU KIDDING ME?
19:35:04 From Bryan Goodkowsky : Now we know who is behind the "Truth Hive" getting involved in our city.
19:35:08 From Sue Walsh : What was that. This is important
19:35:36 From allison rimmer : What what is? this is a heck of a thing to throw out at the end of the meeting
19:35:48 From KEO VT : Lol, really.
19:35:50 From Stacy Raphael : He said Lynn and David will be dropping a heavy load at the first meeting. what the ?!
19:35:58 From Darren Donovan : please......keep it going!
19:35:59 From KEO VT : That was messed up, but ok, cool
19:36:16 From Darren Donovan : this was the best part.
19:36:19 From KEO VT : Yes, this meeting needs to continue
19:36:20 From Danelle Birong : Please continue this meeting. We can not end like this, no matter the time.
19:36:45 From Stacy Raphael : Lynn and David - do you know Matt White?
19:36:47 From Cheryl Brownell : Please do not end the meeting until this is addressed.
19:36:52 From kim : that's a terrible way to end and I feel more divided than ever
19:36:53 From Didier Murat : please continue the meeting
19:36:56 From laurie : call him
19:37:00 From Darren Donovan : I want Matt White to have the floor for as long as he wants.
19:37:00 From Stacy Raphael : DO NOT END MEETING
19:37:04 From Mark Koenig : Does David Austin know what Matt White was talking about. They have been on podcasts together
19:37:04 From Amanda : ian please ask Matt
19:37:29 From Darren Donovan : No! Now!!
19:37:34 From KEO VT : If you end this now, it casts you in a terrible light, guys
19:37:42 From KEO VT : and it's already bad enough, don't you think?
19:37:43 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : based on the podcast it sounds like David A has an agenda
19:37:57 From Darren Donovan : you have to continue!
19:38:10 From allison rimmer : Why does a citizen toss out: Oh, boy! Wait til you all hear what *I* know!! What is this?
19:38:11 From Kathy Rossier : do not end this
19:38:16 From rebecca rey : Thank you Dickie
19:38:19 From KEO VT : PLEASE
19:38:27 From Darren Donovan : let the council members override the decision to close
19:38:29 From sandyreck : Yes, please clarify Mat White!
19:38:31 From Keith’s iPhone : Thanks Dickie
19:38:47 From Darren Donovan : override the decision
19:38:49 From sandyreck : Absolutely Dickie!!
19:38:57 From Darren Donovan : unmute him
19:39:02 From Stacy Raphael : what about David Austin?
19:39:14 From John Stroup : information about what?
19:39:20 From Darren Donovan : then he shouldn't have brought it up.
19:39:24 From Stacy Raphael : bs
19:39:31 From Jason Farrell : That's a troll
19:39:56 From Darren Donovan : call the city attorney on zoom right now.
19:39:58 From allison rimmer : David A and Matt White podcast together
19:40:04 From Kathy Rossier : David Austin….what do you know?
19:40:05 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : no, it's a real person who is also seriously misguided
19:40:09 From Carrie Macfarlane : what podcast
19:40:12 From KEO VT : this is certainly odd
19:40:27 From Keith’s iPhone : anyone got a name for the podcast?
19:40:37 From Bryan Goodkowsky : Mr. White. Please confirm that you are behind the FOIA requests through The "Truth Hive" https://trive.news/
19:40:39 From Kathy Rossier : they have taken office
19:40:47 From Darren Donovan : they have taken office!!
19:40:56 From Jill Murray-Killon : I am muted again.
19:40:56 From Carrie Macfarlane : oh my, is he Qanon?
19:41:02 From Stacy Raphael : then why speak at all?
19:41:12 From KEO VT : really
19:41:15 From Darren Donovan : please unmute Jill!! Now
19:41:28 From Stacy Raphael : UNMUTE JILL
19:41:49 From Sue Walsh : un mute jill
19:41:51 From Darren Donovan : so the former members are liable. not the new ones? correct?
19:41:58 From richardmorin : Do yourself a favor and google ghost of Matt Lyon/Matt White. Puts comments in context.
19:42:03 From Stacy Raphael : David Austin do you know Matt White?
19:42:08 From Kathy Rossier : DAvid, what knowledge do you have??
19:42:11 From Darren Donovan : bullshit!
19:42:11 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : Declare your independence with earnest hancock
19:42:17 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : 9/14 episode
19:42:34 From Darren Donovan : he's now made it public.
19:42:39 From Jason Farrell : Troll
19:42:48 From Darren Donovan : she's a paralegal
19:42:52 From Stacy Raphael : dude
19:43:01 From John Stroup : There are a lot of people in this Zoom room who have also made FOIA requests (including me) and we have made that material publicly available. That information was shared with Andy Kirkaldy who has reported thoroughly and objectively on our city's situation.
19:43:01 From allison rimmer : I guess I look forward to reading an account of Matt’s investigation in the Addy Indy. Responsible reporting
19:43:02 From Stacy Raphael : WOW
19:43:05 From Kathy Rossier : Matt White…do you pay taxes in Vergennes? Are you a full time resident of Vergennes?
19:43:05 From Darren Donovan : no!!!
19:43:28 From Kathy Rossier : Thank you, Lynn and council
19:43:33 From Darren Donovan : override!
19:43:40 From Elise Shanbacker (she/her) : sorry I can't find the podcast link right now